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If you care about freedom, you shouldn't use . If you care about security it might still be your best bet, though take a look at briar it might (even better) cover your needs in that case: briarproject.org/

Here's two articles which together shine a pretty good light why I don't consider a useful option:

* matrix.org/blog/2020/01/02/on-
* drewdevault.com/2018/08/08/Sig

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One example about this freedom aspect:

The Android app as distributed by OpenWhisperSystems contains nonfree libraries by google so is in essence nonfree.

In addition OWS forbids anyone else distributing a Signal client which removes these dependencies, threatening legal action (with Trademark Law, etc.).
The remaining options are:

* Maintain and build a fork for yourself
* Rely on one of the projects that ignore Moxie's threats and distribute a free version of signal anyway.

Neither of these seems like a viable option and something I can stand behind.

@mondstern See the second option.

Moxie threatened to block all third-party builds/client based on user-agent or if they put the official user-agent threatened to sue for trademark violation.

@mondstern @Bubu Thanx for the advice! I installed the FOSS-Fork now (there are two different versions) and it works. The verification number in my boyfriends phone changed directly and I can't use the "normal" app anymore. Not tried with SMS yet but I don't have another app for them.

@Bubu Check out Session Messenger, it seems promising. Not trying to shill, but maybe you'll like it.

@Bubu What do you recommend then? The essential for me is, that it can handle sms'es as well as normal chat :-)

@jcc @Bubu I use Conversations on Android, and have SMS in that via jmp.chat

Unfortunately no great XMPP client for iOS yet, but Siskin and Monal are continually improving (and continually fighting Apple's increasing restrictions).

@Bubu
Discussing some Signal issues with friend, one show us Session. Do you know it? If yes what do you think about it.

@keimashimari There's multiple red flags going up here, though I've researched this for only about 5 minutes by now.

* It's based on some blockchain
* it has deep ties into the 8chan scene (see mastodon.infra.de/@galaxis/103)

@Bubu
@keimashimari

#Session is fork of #Signal, but is decentralised using #tor routing via their own network called #Loki.net. Read more about it at getsession.org. The feature set is very basic at the moment. As per #getsession website, they do not store mags on the #blockchain. It's a Signal fork, so all data resides on the device. no #metadata is collected similar to Signal.

@NatCor
Signal data are also stored on server but encrypted? IIRC if you change your phone or use the desktop version you can retrieve your messages?
@Bubu

@keimashimari
@Bubu

Msgs are not stored in Signal cloud. Only your contacts, profile pics, settings are stored in the cloud encrypted. Msgs are stored encrypted locally on device or if you choose cloud service (Signal backup files are default encrypted). So if changing hardware, you want to do local backup first then somehow copy the backup file onto your new device. When you register Signal for the first time on the new device, Signal will ask if restoring backup, search for your backup

@keimashimari
@Bubu

file, input your backup file encryption passphrase and all your msgs should appear. If you don't restore msgs backup during registration process, you won't be able to restore backup after started using Signal already.

As for desktop, when you link to your phone to new desktop, I believe the msgs are synced from point of first desktop link and not your entire history of msgs as a security measure. Subsequent syncs will pickup from your last sync. It may take awhile if you

@keimashimari
@Bubu

if you haven't synced in awhile.

For example, you link desktop A on Monday, you're msgs synced from Monday.

You link desktop B on Wed, you'll start getting msgs from Wed onward. You won't see prior msgs from Tues/Mon even though its on your mobile device or desktop A.

I believe wire msgr does does the same thing as a security measure.

Hope this helps.

@NatCor
Ok, thank for your explanations, it was not what I understood at the beginning. And what is the purpose of the NIP in Signal?

@NatCor
The four digit number you are asked to choose when you first launch Signal.

@Bubu

#OpenWhisperSystems doesn't exist. It's another bullshit name from the snake oil salesman.

The owner of #Signal is Quiet Riddle Ventures LLC, which is unrelated, other than having a business relationship with, to the foundation of which Brian #Acton is the sole member.

@Bubu

This article gives a clue as to what their monetisation plan (other than selling to Big Tech again) could be:

> Acton had an alternative that he tried pushing back with: Invite businesses to send “informational, useful content” to WhatsApp users, like the SMS from his Honda dealer, but don’t allow them to advertise or track data beyond a phone number.

forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/20 (make sure #JavaScript is disabled and #uBO is up to date before you follow that link)

@Bubu

Note btw that #Acton used to work in marketing, so to him it's not called #advertising. It's called “sending informational, useful content”.

@Bubu

There is one big problem with all those cool p2p or federated messengers: They do not work on iOS since Apple requires their push service to be used and forbids apps to lurk in the background.

If you have friends using iPhones, and need to invite them in groups, I am not aware of anyhing better than Signal :(

@ashimokawa

Get them on Matrix via Element, it's really easy now. (I got some non-technical people to do it this week without any help form me except telling them which client they should install)

But of course apple and in particular iPhones are even more closed than signal... so freedom or openness is usually not something someone who uses an iPhone worries about. :-)

@Bubu

Exactly, probably all of my iPhone contacts also use WhatsApp, and Signal was the only thing agreed to install, back then matrix wasn't usable. Interesting that it is now. I wonder how they dealt with Apples policies.. Declaring it a VoIP app?

@Bubu also he gave a controversial speech at 36c3 promoting centralization is the future. oyd.org.tr/en/articles/signal/

@alper I was in the talk, yes... It was rather bizarre, given the audience. (I remember applause for pretty much all critical questions.) I'm still not sure if the whole talk was just moxie trolling 36C3.

(The talk was very well presented, I enjoyed listening to it. But I and most others happened to disagree with 95% of his points.)

@Bubu does the website download have proprietary code?

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