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One (of many) reason why I prefere GPN over XXc3 events is the better photo policy. Those naggers having fun coming up to you asking: "Did you ask everyone in this shot beforehand?" are the worst. Dude, the photo has a panoramic background - each face is maybe 3 pixels large.
But some guys like to take the fun out of everything. Great Job 👍

@bleeptrack

Thank you for mentioning this, I totally agree - so bored of this whole picture discussion.

More sexism/*ism outcalling less of this no-picture fetishism please.

SPOILER (bad argument): Its 2019, your face is literally on millions of pictures. Unsecured cameras are everywhere. I understand not wanting to be on photos, but this thing feels like a distortion hiding more important topics.

@bleeptrack Yes surveillance is an important topic, no being on pictures in public places is less of an issue.

I really like the solution with colored stickers/badges which you can use for sharing your pronoun as a bonus.

@pl
Yes, I also like the sticker solution very much!

@bleeptrack I hardly disagree. I can not see how many megapixels your cam has and I am glad that I don't need to worry about being pictured all the time.

@Bobo_PK
I agree but prefere other rules like opt-in/out photo stickers.
The rule (from my pov) is mainly used to enforce some dudes to diss any person making any kind of photo. And actually this makes _me_ very uncomfortable. I do not dare to make a shot even if _nobody_ would be visible at all bc I fear those angry people.

@bleeptrack @Bobo_PK It's not only faces but also screens: Taking a picture it can be easy to miss the laptop having some private data shown or some hacking going on.

At times it makes me feel anxious seeing the rules ignored. I fear witnessing angry reactions and conflicts. Especially when people aren't approaching photographers nicely but overreact.

I still like the rules because otherwise there probably would be much more filming / taking pictures being way harder to get around.

@bleeptrack @Bobo_PK Then again I really enjoy looking at the beautiful pictures taken. Those are worth being shared with world. In the end it's quite a trade off having those rules in place, but I can see why.

In the end I feel it comes down to how we treat each other: Not being angry about people wanting to share the beauty of congress but approaching them with respect and respecting the wishes of others who do not want to have to watch out for cameras.

@baldo
Yeah, totally agree :)
What bugs me a bit: I do not see this permanent picture taking at GPN where there are totally relaxed photography rules. And there are even a lot of total strangers because the event is open to the public. I wonder why this is so?
Maybe because c3 attracts a lot more "vlogger" like people because it's a rather famous event?
@Bobo_PK

@bleeptrack Good question, perhaps it also has to do with the different scale of the events. The larger an event the more "tourism" happening perhaps?

@bleeptrack @baldo I saw unknown people with rather large foto equipment in the upper floor at GPN and told them not to shoot random people and had a hard time explaining why it makes people down there uncomfortable. It really bugs me that you can take your 50 megapixel DSLR and claim "Panoramafreiheit" because you can easily take a whole shot and zoom in almost unlimited, making screens and faces visible.

@Bobo_PK @baldo I see that there is this greyish area where it is fine for some and not fine for others concerning visibility or recognizably of people. And now that I had some discussions with people about this, I think my point is actually more about the way people enforce the photo rules.

@bleeptrack @Bobo_PK @baldo I'd say it's both.
If the general rule is "no photos of people", a photograph might easily get into trouble.
Maybe (for professional photographers) it's easier to have a "I know the rules and only do long exposure shots/have asked people" sign in their equipment?
Cause most of the time I've seen people ask others, those didn't know the rules. And if you have to do this 20 times a day in the hack center, I can see how this becomes really a nuisance.

@xpac @Bobo_PK @baldo Actually I thought about is, too! It still bugs me a bit that I have to justify my knowledge (and I had dudes come up to me even if I did not point my camera at people _at all_ /o\). But this might be a solution at least for some.
But (and this is why I brought it up yesterday) you even have these dudes explaining the rules in hindsight if they see only one person somewhere totally non-recognizable on a published photo. :(

@bleeptrack @xpac @baldo yeah and knowing you I would probably never approach you (my personal double standard). I really don't know how to solve this any better but to have huge signs explaining the photo rules over and over again. I also enjoy the pictures and live the 4 hour atmo video but I would not like to trade in my privacy just so that we can have a safari there 🦄

@Bobo_PK @baldo Yeah, I see that it is really a super hard line to draw :( But I really like @xpac idea of a "I know the rules, no people will be seen on photos" sign in my photo equipment. Will try this next time for me and Konkludenz :)

@bleeptrack @baldo maybe we can actually hand that out as stickers or whatever, so the few professional photographs at Congress who know and follow the rules can show that, and all the others can still enjoy @Bobo_PK not being excellent to them 😉

@bleeptrack @baldo @Bobo_PK (and maybe we need a "no photos" flag right to the Antifa flag right at the entrance.)

@bleeptrack @baldo @Bobo_PK I've actually thought about something like a newbie flyer... The more new people we have at Congress, the less people know how different it is. And also it could be of use to introduce people to Engelsystem and all those things...

@xpac
Afaik last year there was a flyer with some basic informations including the photo policy that was largely disregarded. @pennylane might know more
@bleeptrack @baldo @Bobo_PK

@sandzwerg @xpac we had the signs everywhere informing people about the photo policy nearly everywhere. We disregarded the flyer from last year because of too much paper waste and used only signs and the flyers hanging on the toilets. All in all this seemed to even increase visibility compared to the flyer from last year.

@pennylane
Ich hab so um die ~42 photo policy Schilder gedruckt und auf dem verteilt. Meistens an zentralen eher schmalen Durchgängen auf Augenhöhe. Und nicht wie am erst an tag 0 sondern schon vor Weihnachten, damit die rechtzeitig von allen Beachtung finden.

Mein Subjektiver Eindruck war, dass das ganz gut funktioniert hatte...
@sandzwerg @xpac

@l3d ja genau mein Punkt, das Schilder verteilen hat meines Erachtens deutlich besser funktioniert als der Versuch jeden Besucher mit einem Flyer auszustatten.

@bleeptrack @baldo I admit that I was not excellent to all people taking pictures in the glass hall of random folks after the N'th incident and it really takes a good amount of time to piss me off. "Hey, have you asked everyone on your picture if they want to be shot? How should I do that? See, then don't shoot here? But $excuse! You agreed to ask, please do so, THX" I even went on plastering Discodrama with no picture signs after people kept filming the crowd in there.

@bleeptrack @baldo @Bobo_PK also Congress is a lot more fancy. There is more to take pictures. I like the rules and dislike stickers, because I would have to put like a dozen on me to make sure they're seen.
I'm totally okay with long time pictures where faces are blurry, but you never know. And I totally understand why people don't want to appear on pictures, or have their desktops being photographed. 1/x

@bleeptrack @baldo @Bobo_PK
I also enjoy events where "the tourists" don't stand around with dozens of smartphones always taking pictures. It already totally ruined concerts for me. 2/x

@bleeptrack @Bobo_PK I'm not bringing my DSLR to Congress to avoid upsetting people.

@bleeptrack @Bobo_PK It makes me uncomfortable to have to remind people about our photo policy.. And with recent cameras, even in a panoramic shot, you will be able to identify faces.

@bleeptrack I'm one of those naggers and I certainly don't enjoy doing that. It pains me deeply that the photo policy makes taking beautiful photographs more difficult, but it also allows me to attend the congress without appearing in images all over the net.

@pyropeter
Then just don't be the nagger? Sorry but small cameras can be hidden everywhere and you prefere dissing people with dslrs, openly taking a photo and knowing the photo rules? This will certainly result in people doing "secret" photos. As I do actually. Because I don't want 10 people around me telling me the photo rules I already know and I have to discuss this for hours /o\

@bleeptrack I should clarify what I wrote this morning (without much sleep):

I certainly try to be very polite while telling people about the photo policy. I might not be very good at it, because of my poor social skills. There are also areas at C3 where it is very loud and it's hard to appear polite while you have to talk loudly to be heard. (I think...)

While I met a few people at 34C3 that knew about the policy, most of the people I talked to acted surprised. 1/2

@bleeptrack I only talked to each person for a few seconds. I would certainly not stay for a lengthy period or demand anything. It is meant as a hint only. I am open to explaining why people might not want to be photographed.

Considering the size of the event, there are certainly people running around with the intent of annoying other people, using the photo policy or otherwise. This is very unfortunate. I do not condone that (obviously).

@bleeptrack kann ich verstehen. Ist daher auch immer wieder spannend mit einer großen Kamera und Stativ auf dem Event rum zu laufen. War froh diesmal, weil die Stimme wegen der Seuche kaputt war, eine Freundin dabei gehabt zu haben die das im Zweifelsfall erklärt hat. Wurden dann in den 3h in denen meine Bilder entstanden sind zwei Mal angesprochen. Ließ sich aber schnell klären.

@bleeptrack
Running around with an old, fully-mechanic bulky 6x6 SLR is luckily nerdy enough so people don't bother to be photographed that much.

@bleeptrack
Ich finde es eigentlich ganz okay ne policy zu haben, auf Basis derer man so ein Gespräch führen kann. Ich hab z.b. Auch Leute gesehen die mit ner GoPro durch die Gegend gelaufen sind, und ich will eig. nicht full frontal in einem Vlog auftauchen. Klingt mehr so nach einem soziales - Klima - Ding, wenn Leute auf Basis dessen dann rumdouchbaggen.

@bleeptrack
Aber irgendwie ists auch nervig, stimmt schon.. Ich hätte auch gerne mehr Fotos gemacht zum Rumzeigen daheeme..

@chillja
Ich finde ne Policy auch voll gut! Aber es ist mega ätzend wie sie umgesetzt wird. Und in Zeiten von winzigsten Kameras ist es halt auch eher lächerlich die Leute mit DSLRs anzupöpeln, die für jeden ersichtlich gerade ein Foto machen und die zu 99.9% eh die policy kennen m(

@bleeptrack Stimmt. Die minikameras vergesse ich oft, ich bin da technisch ziemlich hinterher x)

@bleeptrack I think the current c3 regulation is really good. I really don't understand why it's always necessary to photograph everything instead of just enjoying the moment :)

@jom I think every person should decide them self if they want to live the moment or take a photo ;) And everyone should be able to decide if one is on a photo or not :)
But I have a huge problem with dudes coming up to me and telling me the rules over and over again even if I make a shot not pointed at people at all.

@bleeptrack Yes, the current situation doesn't seem to be optimal for anyone. For example, it annoys me that it is no longer possible at the c3 to walk more than three meters without standing in front of a lens (a little exaggerated, admittedly). And I don't think that fundamental rights have to be emphasized by stickers. That's why I'm in favour of completely banning photography and introducing a photo tour a la press team for the rest of the congress.

@bleeptrack Just wait till its 4am. With all the blinking lights, you get the most beautiful pictures at night when the congress is almost empty anyway.

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