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At some people developed the idea to coordinate a voluntary , take of some websites/servers/services during day September 20, displaying banners instead, etc.

To stay in touch, we agreed on using a channel on the Mattermost server of : click “Join Us” on developersforfuture.org/
and create your account, then join the channel shutdownforclimate.

Notes: pad.disroot.org/p/techiesforfu

@zlax i will just cite one of the comments: "I accept entirely your assertion that you neither meant nor indeed did, cast aspersions as to her intent, her integrity or her credibility. But, I suggest that using the term ‘manipulated’, to some extent does exactly that. [...] Had you said instead that her actions were being hi-jacked by the (hopefully) well meaning, if erroneous mainstream Climate Change movement organisations I would have been in much more agreement. "

@zlax my point is: this does not have to do anything with #FridaysForFuture or #ShutdownForClimate . These movements are still extremely important for the political debate, as pressure on political actors is increased to act according to what scientists where telling for decades.
@c3sustainability

@Carpe Diem exactly, decades. Since the time when US Congress has limited the profits of the Rockefeller family from fossils extractions: #^https://www.globalresearch.ca/rockefeller-familys-covert-climate-change-plan/5678775
As for the unconscious activism of Greta. Most likely it takes place under the conscious auspices of her parents-actors:

Mother of Greta is Greenpeace activist, so Fridays4Future could be named as subdivision of Greenpeace.

@zlax
"Mother of Greta is Greenpeace activist, so Fridays4Future could be named as subdivision of Greenpeace."

Are you accusing Greta to be a marionette of her parents?

I do not think that an autonomous movement that is not controlled by a single entity can be called a subdivision of Greenpeace just because the initiating person has a very loose connection to Greenpeace.

@zlax As i see it, many NGOs are simply freeloaders at FFF. The same goes for Greenpeace.

@Carpe Diem i would paste two quotes about Greenpeace in this case:

It does not matter what is true, it only matters what people believe is true.
— Dr. Patrick Moore, President of Greenpeace Canada 1981

The Greenpeace Foundation, of which I was a co-founder back in 1972, is today simply a multi-million dollar feel-good organization. They are selling the illusion of making a difference to a gullible public.
— Captain Paul Watson, founder of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society
@Carpe Diem
> Are you accusing Greta to be a marionette of her parents?

I think this is most likely, it is hardly a trend of the times without the participation of parents in the spirit of the modern children's crusade:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Crusade


> I do not think that an autonomous movement that is not controlled by a single entity can be called a subdivision of Greenpeace just because the initiating person has a very loose connection to Greenpeace.

Since early childhood, this child has been brought up by an active participant in Greenpeace Corporation:

Greenpeace Sweden: ”Malena Ernman is an incredible activist in the fight to preserve our forest for future generations. Thanks to the support of her, and all of you other amazing people who support us, we can continue to protect our outstanding planet. Do you also want to give away a Christmas present that makes a real difference?”

@zlax there are really no arguments in this.

There is no similarity to the Childrens Crusade i can think of.

And aside from a close relationship with Greenpeace activists, there is no connection to people in my city demonstrating for politicians to act against climate change every friday, or people shutting down their servers to make people think about the topic, who are currently not.

@Carpe Diem demonstrating for politicians (as Rockefeller family set it) benefits only the privileged group of westerners. For example, earlier Western demonstrations for politicians led to the fact that in Western Europe there is no more formaldehyde production. Thanks to eco-activity, this production was moved to Eastern Europe, for example, to the place where I was born - in Yasnaya Polyana. And this is another success of Western climate activists: there are no high-tech electronics dumps in Europe (although there are many high tech consumers), thanks to earlier activists of the West (like Greenpeace), this garbage is now here:
https://www.citylab.com/environment/2019/05/used-electronics-e-waste-landfill-ghana-toxic-technology/590341/


There are a lot of such examples that demonstrate how your activism in the field of caring for the environment brings results. Your politicians are very sensitive to your words; they will surely fulfill the demands of the activists, as they did before. Moreover, children activists. It is a sin not to fulfill the demands of children in your modern culture, as i understand it.

@zlax i do not see the connection between electronic disposal waste and climate activism. To my knowledge there is no activism going on in that direction.

Also i can not see, how exactly climate activism is shifting the problem somewhere else. If e.g. Germany replaces coal with renewables, there will not be a shift in carbon dioxide production to anywhere on the planet. I see that it is not the ultimate solution because of solar panel production and waste etc. But doing nothing is worse.

@Carpe Diem No wonder. It is profitable for you not to notice all these connections - this is called selective attention. E.g. Germany has no resources for the production and operation of so-called "renewable energy sources". Your desire to live in an eco-friendly paradise, to abandon coal soot in favor of the picture "feel good," leads to the fact that hell is created in your cryptocolonies, meanwhile. Mostly in Asia and Africa. I heard that children in Africa work in mines by manual labor, extracting rare earth elements to support your Western demands in high environmental technologies. I hope you understand that in the case of solar energy - electricity is taken not from silicon, not from stone. If you do not understand - try to make a solar panel yourself from materials locally mined. As well as the controller and battery for it.

@zlax i aggree, that these problems exist. But the alternative would be, e.g. to burn all the available fossils and then still be in the same situation, needing to use renewable energy sources. So i think the better approach to this is: switch to renewable energy sources right now and simultaneously address the problems connected with these technologies.

What alternative do we have anyway?

@Carpe Diem
> So i think the better approach to this is: switch to renewable energy sources right now and simultaneously address the problems connected with these technologies.

It's no wonder that you think so, because you are a resident of the privileged West, but not of a cryptocolony, where resources are being developed for your so-called "renewable energy sources" so that you feel good. In your country there is unemployment benefits, due to which you can buy and assemble yourself an inexpensive autonomous system of "renewable energy" from parts made for you by Chinese workers. And you can sing a  successful song, write an commercial article or even just work in a supermarket for some time and buy for yourself a more expensive system but with a guarantee. But apparently you consider your superiority, inherited from your colonialists ancestors, for granted, since you do not understand that only a small privileged part of the population has such a possibility, and this luxury is inaccessible to the majority of the population of the planet.

> What alternative do we have anyway?

You won't like it: giving up inherited privileges.

@zlax
You might not like the fact that this is a basic demand of ecological activists.

They call for less individual consumption in all aspects.

But can you be more precise about what privileges you see as the most problematic?

@Carpe Diem Well, such as the rejection of Western citizenship. If you are a sincere environmentalist, give up your privileged Western citizenship and become a citizen of China or Ghana. That's what I mean. All these words "about low individual consumption" are all neo-colonial propaganda. If you are ready to confirm your words with a deed - give up the privileges of the colonialists inherited from your ancestors and come to live in Agbogbloshie, for example:

Then you will learn in practice what a low level of consumption is.

@zlax okay, so you basically don't want to make life better for people but just that everyone feels equally bad, even if you make the problem worse. Sounds like no solution i want to be a part of.

@Carpe Diem, no, it is not. I just want you to make life better not for people, who inheretid post-colonial privileges. But i want you make life better directly where hell formed, thanks to your well-fed maturing. But it seems that you consider this unacceptable to yourself. I mean direct action, not a request to make it your politicians. After all, by their climate change actionism, the Western youth simply legitimizes the actions of their politicians. It’s a pity that you don’t want to be part of the solution I proposed, which means that you protect your privileges inherited from your ancestors and are not ready to sacrifice this for the sake of others.

@zlax if we do not force our politicians to act, than they will make this worse. I see the guilt that lies on the western world. But when the people who recognize this leave, the tyrants remain that keep this system running and will continue to exploit poor people all over the world.
Then your direct action will be stopped by some western army shooting you in the name of 'freedom'.
I do not disagree with your worldview. I disagree with letting us continue to do this, which your call implies.

@Carpe Diem
> if we do not force our politicians to act, than they will make this worse.

This is populism. You have no influence on politicians. This is the essence of democracy - representatives take on themselves the adoption of decisions that declare the desire of the majority.

> Then your direct action will be stopped by some western army shooting you in the name of 'freedom'.

Yes, that's exactly what happens. The experience of Libya has taught well that the West cannot be trusted. Today, the West is flirting with you, and tomorrow calls you a terrorist and arranges bombing. Privileged Westerners do not mind, because they only benefit from this. If they are told that this is a war against the terrorism, they are happy to believe it.

@zlax And that is what we have to change. And we cannot do that if we leave them for themselves.

@Carpe Diem, could you confirm your beautiful words with a specific act?
Could you share your inherited privileges with those who really need it?
@Carpe Diem
> I do not disagree with your worldview. I disagree with letting us continue to do this, which your call implies.

So you don’t agree to give up your privileges in favor of others, because you don’t agree with my worldview? I understood you correctly?
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