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[en] Use less power = use less Diesel at ! A note on electricity and sustainability. events.ccc.de/2019/07/26/use-m For more ideas on a sustainable camp please follow us, we'll post more until camp. Please also share your ideas!

[de] Weniger Strom = weniger Diesel beim ! Ein paar Bemerkungen zu Elektrizität und Nachhaltigkeit. events.ccc.de/2019/07/26/use-m Für mehr Ideen zu einem nachhaltigen Camp, folgt uns bitte, wir werden bis zum Camp mehr dazu schreiben. Bitte teilt auch eure Ideen!

@c3sustainability Would it be possible to heat the shower water directly with diesel? (Better yet use the waste heat from the generators.)

As I understand the setup, currently we're generating electricity in diesel gensets (30% efficiency), and use electric heaters to heat water in the tanks.

That's convenient, but energetically probably the worst possible way.

@ckeen @c3sustainability I don't know if you can rent such things easily, but it should be fairly common technique for warm water at off-grid locations. the same way people still heat with oil.

@uint8_t I agree that it is not rocket science, I think it just shows how unsustainable the usual festival gear is. Wasteful on all sides.. @c3sustainability

@ckeen @c3sustainability in that case, this is a great opportunity to cut festival CO2 footprint by 3

just by making a mobile oil burning water heater

@ckeen

Yeah its daft this energy isnt used

I was part of a coop working on (among many other things) offering electricity and heat from used cooking oil powered diesel gensets at events. They got a suitable genset after I left the coop, but think that they fuelled it with fresh rapeseed oil

Got lots of friends who work on rubbish/recycling at festivals. From a sustainability perspective most are terrible, even if you ignore all the transportation energy involved.
@uint8_t @c3sustainability

@dazinism @ckeen @uint8_t @c3sustainability

I think one issue here is making sure only heat (and not any carbon monoxide) finds its way to living areas plus most heaters using gasoil/diesel are made for large fixed installations - a bigger one is across Europe (other than CCC it seems) festival type events (even some which claim to be eco-friendly) are just viewed as short term hedonism rather than any genuine attempt to improve things >>

@vfrmedia @dazinism @ckeen @uint8_t @c3sustainability One thing to consider is… if the generators are liquid-cooled, using a heat exchanger in a combined heat and power setup (although I don’t know if anyone does portable generators set up for CHP).

That way, you’re getting heat from the generator’s waste heat instead of the generator’s electricity output, with no need to worry about exhaust gases from directly burning fuel for heat at the point of use…

@bhtooefr @ckeen @dazinism @c3sustainability @vfrmedia these gensets are air-cooled, it's obvious if you stand next to them

and the carbon monoxide issue isn't very different between an internal combustion engine (which we have right now), and a forced ventilation burner.

also, LPG can also work.

@uint8_t @bhtooefr @ckeen @dazinism @c3sustainability

One rave crew I worked with in the 2000s used a genset where the prime mover was the engine of an old VW Beetle, that had been converted to LPG. When it worked it was impressive but I remember it being quite temperamental (probably lack of maintenance, as the concept seemed sound enough).

@bhtooefr
Yes, I was thinking of CHP via heat exchangers fitted to liquid cooled engines Potentially an easy win for a load of energy, if you are doing a lot of heating anyway
My brother worked for a company that did renewable power for festivals- solar & biodiesel
They moved into building big battery banks with top notch inverter/chargers linked to diesel generators & selling to hire companies that serviced the construction industry
@vfrmedia @ckeen @uint8_t @c3sustainability

@dazinism @ckeen @uint8_t @c3sustainability

PS: I spent almost 25 years of my life as part of the UK's rave scene including helping organise a few events and being a steward at a couple of small festivals, and until I learned about CCCcamp I literally had not heard of any event in Europe that addressed sustainability/resourcing issues and doesn't also pass costs/burdens to the public sector in the region where it happens (I wonder if the relatively high ticket price is a reflection of this?)

@uint8_t @c3sustainability The stuff used on the camp is technically heating oil (very similar to diesel). Therefore there should be an abundance of appliances using it. I just don't know if you can find flow heaters

@uint8_t @c3sustainability I thought so as well, but according to Wikipedia, they were only identical until around 1994, but it doesn't say what is different now

@frainz they add a coloring agent to make tax evasion harder

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chaos.social

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