"we should be working not just to pay the bills, but to make sure we don’t create software that we will one day regret", I like the term #ethicalDebt, software engineers think a lot about technical debt when building software but we should not forget the ethical debt of what we build. thenewstack.io/tech-ethics-new #software #engineering #ethics

@bjoern “when Mark Zuckerberg was making Facebook in his dorm room bedroom, he probably wasn’t trying to make this dopamine-inducing tool”

Yes he was. He called his users “dumb fucks”. Can we please stop perpetuating this myth and giving the people who knowingly created this mess a pass with this “oops, they just wanted to make things better but ended up making things worse and accidentally becoming billionaires” narrative.

VC/startups/the Silicon Valley model is unethical.

@aral @bjoern As far as I remember Facebook was originally created so that Zuck could stalk his college contemporaries in a voyeuristic manner. So it originates from a place of creepyness.

@aral
Facebook's arc was so predictable from the off. It was all there to see. That is why I tire of the decade-too-late centrist takes on the dangers of Facebook from embedded journals that have been riding the FB convoy for years and still now feel compelled to warn their readers against the extremism of looking for alternatives or smear FOSS types & decentralists, often barely making a living, as Mr Robot style weirdos.
@bob @bjoern

@krozruch @aral @bob @bjoern That othering means that free software proponents have to cut themselves off from reaching people to use safe platforms, which only feeds the loop.

There's also a lack of concern from users. I can tell all the horror stories I want, but they still think it's just how things are. Especially because the platforms are free. No one pays for "unnecessary" services.

@kcnightfang @krozruch @aral @bob @bjoern

Don't know whether any of you would/could gain anything from the following, regardless I present the article:

"List of problems endemic to social media"

social.antefriguserat.de/index

The last bullet-item currently on the list:

"• Apathy: The meta-problem. 90% of users don't care enough about the above problems to switch to better systems."

@FerdiZ @bjoern @aral @krozruch @kcnightfang

The problem is not so much apathy as network effect. Real People (TM) have said things to me in the past like:

"Why would I move to a social network where none of my friends are?"

It's not that they don't care about privacy. If you ask them to give you their credit card number or to remove their curtains they'll say "no". It's more a case that if you want to be with your friends then you have to accept what the social networks are.

@bob
I hear this comparisons often and also used it in the past. Meanwhile I come to the conclusion that it is something you can't compare. Whether it is rational or not, people have a strong privacy feeling if it is about their friends, neighbors, etc who could know something private about them but not if something as anonymous as algorithm analysis it...
@FerdiZ @aral @krozruch @kcnightfang

@bob @FerdiZ @aral @krozruch @kcnightfang
That's why I no longer use such comparisons, in my experience they don't really help. In my view you need some "real world feature" no one else has to win the majority. Just copying what's already out there in a more privacy friendly way will not win on large scale - 1/3

@bob @FerdiZ @aral @krozruch @kcnightfang That's why believe that the messenger war is over, XMPP had a opportunity 10 years ago which we missed, unfortunately. Next opportunity will come when something better/different from what we have now appears. Same with social networks - 2/3

@bjoern @kcnightfang @krozruch @aral @FerdiZ

WhatsApp is really just a version of XMPP. They even run ejabberd on the server.

They just took something open and made a proprietary client, with the telephone number as username.

So, the popularity of chat apps has little to do with features or protocols. A lot of it is down to factors which we don't have much influence upon, like marketing.
Sign in to participate in the conversation
chaos.social

The social network of the future: No ads, no corporate surveillance, ethical design, and decentralization! Own your data with Mastodon!