The current state of #XMPP iOS clients certainly leaves a lot to be desired. But I'm very excited about the rate of progress recently.

We now have a growing number of people making it their mission to ensure XMPP gets the first-class iOS experience it desperately needs.

Make sure to provide the developers feedback. If you find a bug that isn't reported, or that you could provide additional insight into, that is a really helpful way to contribute to improving the future of XMPP on iOS.

We can do this! 😎

@mattj Sounds interesting, but are the protocol problems solved? As long as push cannot be configured server side, there'll always be push spam. Matrix solved this pretty well, I would be really happy if XMPP could have as good push as Matrix one day. (iOS + Push + XMPP being as terrible as it is is what made me move to Matrix)

@js
What kind of configuration are you thinking? What's your definition of "push spam"?

@mattj Join a MUC, get spammed, because there's a.) no filtering (I canot say don't push for MUC) and b.) no deduplication (if someone didn't specify an id on their message, I'm SOL)

@ij @mattj That doesn't work: That only means that if Siskin is connected, it will not notify when a message comes from this MUC.

If, however, Siskin is not connected and Apple Push is used, the server just sends everything, as the XEP has no filtering support, and iOS displays it. There is nothing Siskin could do about it.

@js
I'm curios: For Apple Push to be used, the Server would need to send the messages to Apple, wouldn't it? At least ejebberd doesn't provide such an option. So how Apple Push will come into the play at all?
@ij @mattj

@kirschwipfel @ij @mattj You need to send a message with a text via Apple. E.g. “New message”. This is what Prosody does. A client can then have an app extension to fetch and decrypt the actual message and replace the text. An app extension cannot however just dismiss a message (at least as of iOS 13). Hence server side support for configuring for what to send a push is necessary. Matrix does this, but there is no such XEP. Which is why push does not work properly on all iOS XMPP clients.

@js I still do not get how/why a XMPP-Server will use apple push at all?!

Anyway, I'd call this a bug then, as using Apple Push betrays privacy. (Please be aware there is no such thing like "meta" data an apple can profile users by collecting timings.)
@ij @mattj

@kirschwipfel @ij @mattj Because how else would it talk to the phone when the app is not in the foreground?

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@kirschwipfel @js @mattj There is a drawing of how Cisco Jabber does this and I think it's more or less valid for all implementations: cisco.com/c/en/us/td/docs/voic

So, there is the APNS and another server inbetween. For Monal it's ios13push.monal.im for Siskin/Beagle it's push.tigase.im. Usually you can see those connections in your server logs...

@ij @kirschwipfel @mattj Oh, Monal does iOS 13 push *finally*? I might try that again at some point - but now all my contacts moved to Matrix anyway, so hard to test 🤷‍♂️

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