I have been a #firefox user since antiquity but its dying a slow death and I am not sure people realise what a disaster that is

@openrisk @kubikpixel agreed, they've no idea. But it's really hard to explain why Firefox is the only alternative to people who don't care as long as their devices are convenient enough.

@miro @kubikpixel

I think we need to move past the "people don't care" narrative (and fast)

It is very hard to have an informed consent when people have no clue what is happening in digital tech

But that is the case in practically every technology silo: people don't know about food safety, appliances, cars, airplanes etc either. They *assume* whats in the market is "ok"

For reasons that will be for ever shameful, a couple of companies have been a carte blanche to abuse that public attitude

@openrisk @miro @kubikpixel

Put insurances on the list. It is almost impossible to understand for non-specialists wgat is good / necessary / essential / useless.

@christian_zerfass @openrisk @miro @kubikpixel

for motor insurance (at least in UK) there's a "myth of choice", you might get 70 quotes from a comparison site but there's only 5 companies using different brands and once you have made a claim only 2 or 3 will want to deal with you (they also share data even with "competitors" and nudge new/young drivers to accepting spy boxes; very similar to the tech industry)

@vfrmedia @christian_zerfass @miro @kubikpixel

yep, its widespread. its a difficult balance in general. you don't want a nanny state (would never work), you want people to be informed, critical and responsible. but different people have different abilities and *nobody* has enough time

it gets really bad though when a sector (usually excess lobbying power from profits) manages to exploit the general consumerist assumptions and expectations that legally operating commercial actors are kosher


I don't know what goes on in the #UK anymore but I'm curious about those black boxes.

I have some experience with them albeit in a military context and I find they *can* help, provided that it's not misused.

We used to download the data once a week or so and then go over it with a driving instructor, who would point out both good and bad habits. This was reinforced with very frequent driver tests in which you provided a running commentary of what you were doing, perceiving, anticipating and planning. To this day I still regularly do commentary drives to myself.

(If you're curious, this is what it looks like: m.youtube.com/watch?v=MRmiaQqW)

Situation specific driver training was also a thing, some of it quite fun (well, for some definitions of fun anyway 😀).

Later on I moved to aeroplanes and in there we also had a so called QAR (quick access recorder) which is kind of like a black box except that we (the company) has access to the data and is supposed to be used for safety improvement, but it really depends on the company.

So, if young drivers also get the benefit of someone critiquing their driving habits based on the data, that could be quite helpful.

@christian_zerfass @openrisk @miro @kubikpixel


therein lies the rub. the digital "apparatus" can range from entertaining to mind-bogglingly important but society doesn't have mechanisms to prevent abuse whether on the hands of errant individuals, out-of-control private enterprise or oppressive states

the toll of not having our act together is high. example: i have a feeling that pandemics could be suppressed much more effectively if we could safely exchange sensitive data

@vfrmedia @christian_zerfass @miro @kubikpixel

@openrisk @101101000

the equipment used is similar, but unlike the military or a fleet network with qualified human trainers, the black box data is processed by algorithms that often penalise drivers for being 5 minutes late on a curfew after working a late shift; or even suggest they are speeding in somewhere they couldn't physically have been due to a GPS error, and the young drivers aren't given quick customer service to correct errors..

@christian_zerfass @miro @kubikpixel


Yeah our data got “analysed” by a computer too. As you can imagine the results were comically wrong so we mostly ran the program just for fun.

Unfortunately in the context you describe this would have the opposite effect and cast what should be a (part of a) good system into a negative light.

I've always said there's no tech solutions to human / social problems, and in this case there's simply no substitute to having an actual qualified person in the car with you.

@openrisk @christian_zerfass @miro @kubikpixel

Going off in a bit of a tangent here. 

@vfrmedia @openrisk @christian_zerfass @miro @kubikpixel

I really do hope fully autonomous driving is going to improve the situation but in the meanwhile we might actually see the opposite effect: unlike in the armed forces or in aviation, where we have to pass a six week course just for the specific type of aeroplane we're going to fly, you can pass your driving test on any old banger and then you're good to sit behind the wheel of anything, be it a 600 BHP “sports” car, a SAE level 3 vehicle or, why not, a 600 BHP SAE level 3 conveyance.

While technically easier and safer to drive, you need to know the systems or someone is likely to get hurt. I miss some decent regulation on this aspect of things.

Going off in a bit of a tangent here. 


some countries have graduated driving licences with power limits in the first few years; in UK the cost of insurance (and fuel!) and insurers actively turning down young drivers (or those considered risky) on top of many speed and ANPR cameras and random Police checks for correct insurance tends to prevent the worst of this...

@openrisk @christian_zerfass @miro @kubikpixel


we already have "pass plus" tuition and advanced driving courses; these used to result in discounts on insurance but it seems the insurers would rather trust the machines than the humans (in spite of many advanced instructors being ex-military or Emergency Services)

@openrisk @christian_zerfass @miro @kubikpixel


They probably think it'll cost them less that way.

And it very well might, by some narrow criterion, but in the big picture the social impact cannot be even comparable.

@openrisk @christian_zerfass @miro @kubikpixel

We still have something like #epiphany / #gnome Web on #linux (based on WebkitGTK).
@thelinuxEXP is checking it out right now. I'm eager to watch the follow-up video! :blobfoxheartcute:


@lerothas @kubikpixel @thelinuxEXP please, i want Epiphany to be good and i have been using it for many years. I still do but i cannot say it is the alternative. Rendering is slow. It can be improved by using a lot of cores (amd r5 1600 here) but that kinda defeats the purpose.

So again: i am using it, i will use it but it is not good to be a default browser or be recommended at this point. Firefox is far better in every possible way (except for webapps).

@b847c1960 @kubikpixel @thelinuxEXP Okay, I never used it that much and I never noticed a difference in speed. So is it that so much slower?

Despite, what I really miss in Epiphany is a script blocking capability like NoScript or uMatrix. Those are so much helpful browsing the internet. :blobfoxheartcute:

@lerothas @kubikpixel @thelinuxEXP yes, script blocking would help a lot. It is so slow to load certain modern websites and it hammers my cpu so much that i can hear the fans accelerating. Those websites are filled with JS things like Vimeo, SoundCliud and... Well that is it, i am not much of a browser. Github works better. IBMSkillset is okay as well.

You can load userscripts but i dont know can it help. Ublock with whitelist would do wonders here.

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