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Good write up by @sjvn. You take a look at that open letter calling for RMSs removal and the board who voted for him back in. It includes people who have worked with him and the organisation for years.
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RT @JFrusci
Return of Stallman to FSF sparks outrage among open-source and free software leaders zdnet.com/article/return-of-st
twitter.com/JFrusci/status/137

They knew by signing it what it meant. It needed to be done otherwise we kiss goodbye to the ethical highground of tech. We are just another part of tech that has an extremely problematic attitude to its participants.

This is a start, we still all need to work hard on making our projects and spaces welcome to everyone. Not just lipservice to diversity.

@onepict Also 5 out of 16 original signees are OSI members.

At least *this* open letter does not include the lies. It however links to the followup to the lying post in the appendix as reference 0 which links again to the post with the lies as first and prominent link. There’s a direct chain from the lies to the open letter :-(

Why can’t we state clearly: We do not condone lies and dishonest slander and don’t use them to support our position, even if it would fit our goal?

Ethical Highground?

@ArneBab
As I stated I signed the letter because of the way the board hung libre planet and the FSF out to dry. This post by Bradley Kuhn summarises some of the issues and points at RMSs own words. We owe a huge debt to RMS, but at this point he's harmful to his own legacy. ebb.org/bkuhn/blog/2019/10/15/

@onepict Thank you for that link. This is mostly the content I wish the open letter had (but which it does not have).

The text by Bradley Kuhn does not alleviate that the open letter uses the article with lies and slander as prime reference, but I decided that I should now actually stick to avoid discussing this further, because the danger of flamewars is much too high.

@ArneBab
These things are always painful for everyone involved. Emotions are very high on this. As usual you are very calm, which we need more of.

RMS 

@onepict I was disappointed (but unsurprised) to see there's also a very similarly formatted letter of support for RMS doing the rounds, which currently has fewer (but still very many) signatures. It's sad that letter, in my opinion, entirely misses the point :(

@onepict

 "The thing that randos who have never had to actually work with rms don't understand is that MANY people who deeply respected him tried to help him learn to not objectify women, shout over others at Libreplanet as if it was his birthday party, stop sh*t like 'emacs virgins.' 
Instead, "That energy, utterly wasted, could've been spent advocating for free software and building the inclusive, impractical community so many people WANT. Spent, instead, on a man's ego, over and over."

^^^

@onepict

I do think this article is kind of shitty in that in describing people who had bad experiences with stallman they list two men by name (linus torvald and eric s raymond) and then handwave at a whole bunch of women and say "them too" without naming a single one.

The women who had bad experiences with Stallman and have been brave enough to be vocal about it should be listed first and they should be mentioned by name with "and many, many other women" at the end.

@Alonealastalovedalongthe
I suspect that with the article there would ideally need to be permission for that. As it may lead to more harassment for the women, plus editorial deadline maybe, I'm not a journalist so I don't know. I do wonder ig if there should have been a website to collect all the stories, but remembering the last time a website was produced about a similar abuse situation the folks got alot of flak.

@onepict

That is a very valid point, I was thinking that but I figured if enough women and men were mentioned that it wouldn't cause anyone to be singled out and harassed and that women who have felt comfortable enough to go public with their experiences have signaled they want their names to be discussed and they want their stories to be told.

However, yah you are def right there could be a very good reason for not naming the women right at the top and encouraging harassment idk.

@Alonealastalovedalongthe
It's a difficult choice, it's one thing to pop it on your timelines, it's another thing for it to be reported in the press and /or a website. We have seen victims of powerful men who come out about abuse (in any form) and get doxxed, harassed etc. It's a difficult balance and it would take alot to be ready for that amount of negative attention. Cos the Internet is to some extent for ever. Even with the EU right to be forgotten.

stallman, racism, sexism 

@onepict

Also, this was being discussed on lemmy.ml and somebody made the claim that they didn't like the open letter against Stallman (tho they thought he should be removed) because they claimed many of the signers were OSI/Debian people and that Raymond and Perens (dont know who they are) have behaved very similarly and yet the signers aren't condemning their behavior.

They linked to this article
blog.ndarwincorn.me/writing/an

What are yall's thoughts?

stallman, racism, sexism 

@Alonealastalovedalongthe
Well ESR was banned from OSI mailing lists. Some of the signées are from SeaGL, which is a very free software oriented, diverse lefty converence. Plus apparently ESR signed the support letter for RMS hacker-news.news/post/22518370

stallman, racism, sexism 

@Alonealastalovedalongthe
Reading that article, the public comments of transphobia aren't just the policy, one person states that RMS refused to use their partners pronouns. The thing with any abuse when you are in power is that it often happens as far away from witnesses who would be horrified if they saw it. So when it's witnessed abusers ay we'll be confident that their behaviour is accepted. It's how these things build up over years.

stallman, racism, sexism 

@Alonealastalovedalongthe
Thanks, I continued à little, wordiness is a bad habit of mine.

stallman, racism, sexism 

@Alonealastalovedalongthe
Regardless the very way it was announced, the mishandling of this situation shows RMS and the folks who enabled them aren't suitable to represent us to the world. They can still code and contribute but we don't want them to represent us in a leadership role. Their poor behaviour and abuse of power, because this goes beyond the harassment, it's how a leader treats people around him who he doesn't value at all.

stallman, racism, sexism 

@Alonealastalovedalongthe
If we claim we are about user freedom and ethics, we can't have a leader that ignores those ethics when they feel like it. We have to have a leader who is focused on those values and using it to publisise Free Software. Not whatever they are commenting on at the moment that isn't related to free software. We have to hold ourselves and our leaders to a higher focused standard if we want to argue for Free Software. RMS seems incapable of doing that

stallman, racism, sexism 

@Alonealastalovedalongthe
People can't just abandon the FSF as the projects they worked on and still are working on are held by the FSF. So if they walk away as some have done, they have to take the heartbreaking decision of abandoning that work. I don't know but I suspect this is how that open letter to the FSF was arrived at. Folks knew the backlash they would get. But the FSF kicked it off by letting RMS back in and letting him announce it.

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