Follow

They: "Imperative programming let's me know exactly in which order things get executed!"
Modern CPUs:

@raichoo I don‘t really understand how this toot, and your previous claim that „programming languages are just tools“ fit together. Can you explain that? 🤔

@moonglum Sure! I was reminded of a conversation where someone was arguing how Haskell was inferior because of the fact that they could not reasons about evaluation order like they could in Perl. It's something I hear every now and then. And it hasn't been true for a long time now. At least on widely used hardware. Since spectre that's even more obvious. This is not an argument against imperative programming, I'm just pointing at a misconception regarding particular hardware.

@raichoo Yes, that makes sense :) Thanks for the explanation! :) And sorry for the first toot, I should just posted that question directly :)

@moonglum Certainly would have made things a bit easier but hey your follow up was totally making up for that ^^. So no worries.

@moonglum On the other hand I find it super interesting what people can read into a single message and how much context they apply by themselves. I was genuinely confused how that toot could be interpreted as a statement on being "a better developer". It's interesting how people interpret messages based on their "internal state". I seem to run into this quite often 😸

@moonglum It's especially funny if you interpreted this as an argument against imperative PLs because it reached me during a moment were I was writing imperative code in a very imperative language 😸

@raichoo 100%! I work as a consultant (don‘t like that word, but that‘s a different discussion). In the projects, I‘ve seen two things across the years:

1. Bugs are rarely backend programming bugs, they are mostly UX/UI shortcomings, frontend bugs (CSS or JS), accessibility problems and most importantly getting the requirements wrong.
2. When I look at performance problems, it‘s always either frontend code (too much JS), inefficient use of HTTP or inefficient use of SQL.

To be continued...

@raichoo So this year I‘ve been thinking a lot about our obsession with backend code (programming languages, frameworks, architecture...) – when clearly that‘s not the part with which I can help people make their projects more awesome. I‘m 100% including myself here (invented and implemented my own language, learned a lot of languages, writing a book about a Web framework...).

And I guess that was the context I came from reading your toot :)

@moonglum Yeah, the whole software development landscape is… complicated. I wish there were easy solutions, obviously there are none.

@RussSharek @raichoo
And just like always, people walk close by while ignoring it.

Sign in to participate in the conversation
chaos.social

chaos.social – a Fediverse instance for & by the Chaos community