in France, it is illegal to acknowledge differences of race when collecting data. which is to say that it is illegal to collect data on racism and racial inequalities. the ultimate form of "pointing out racism is the real racism"


@garfiald oh yeah, why would anyone ever think it might be a bad idea to collect data on race in central europe, it's just like as if such data might used for idk genocide or something

@garfiald ur argument is the racial equivalent to "getting rid of buerocratic gender assignment would make sexism invisible and is harmful to women" hot take usually pointed out by TERFs btw 🙂

@reyhan obviously no one should be forced to disclose their ethnicity in any situation. No one should ever have to disclose their gender in any situation, and bureaucratic gender assignment should be abolished for all. Data on racial and gender inequalities should be collected when said information is given voluntarily, which is often already the case.

@reyhan I'm impressed by the effectiveness with which you took my post in the worst faith possible and framed your objection in the most incriminating terms possible. "Being unable to document racial discrimination and racism directly contributes to racism and shuts down any serious attempts to combat it" isn't a particularly hot take, it's been held by most French activists for decades.

@garfiald i'm assuming you're not speaking a from (continental) europa perspektive when you are using the term "race"

@reyhan I use "race" to describe an ideological framework which divides humanity into specific groups associated with continental origin, associates race with certain observable physical characteristics, giving particular significance to skin colour, and regards racial characteristics as hereditary in some especially significant sense. This is in line with much usage of the word in my native France, the country under discussion.

@garfiald and what would these be in france? what specific groups make sense for french concext?

@reyhan depends on the place and time of course. Black, Arabic, and Roma people, among others, are subjected to particularly violent oppression in France at the moment.

@garfiald what about the people that are maybe (or not) considered arab, but aren't, and yet face antimuslim racism? what about jewish people?

@reyhan obviously depends on the situation. Mechanisms of oppression are liquid by design and the purpose generalisations such as the ones you asked me to make is to offer a broad sketch rather than absolute laws.

@garfiald and who is going to determine which categories are to applied?

@reyhan in terms of analysis? or from the perpetrator's point of view? in the first case, the person producing the analysis, in the second, the perpetrator, in dialogue, naturally, with the ideological constructs in play. anyway, as much as im enjoying this socratic interrogation i fail to see how you're contributing anything to my appreciation of racism in france, a topic i have had the misfortune of being well-acquainted with already

@garfiald hm. this time i tried to understand what and how you'd try to achieve towards ending racism with these means instead of "taking your post in the worst possible faith", but of course that's rather boring compared to my edgy (yet serious) genocide reply

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