It's a sad situation that it's so difficult to set up self-owned online services. It's taken me weeks to set up my own code hosting platform, working on it in my free time. Similarly with my fediverse instance, and before that my Nextcloud setup.

I have a lot more tech experience than the average person, plus the privilege of having free time to do all this, and I've still found it difficult. So it's practically unachievable for the majority of people.

This is what keeps people locked within surveillance capitalism.

@gid You may want to contribute to the Freedombox project.

@alvarezp thanks, I think I've seen the name before but I didn't know any specifics.

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@gid @alvarezp both @freedomboxfndn and @yunohost are interesting options to help with selfhosting.

But I think your general point is correct, users won't have freedom unless setting them up becomes as easy as installing something from a consumer store.

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@uniq @alvarezp @freedomboxfndn @yunohost yeah, that's what I'm getting at. These projects are great but the underlying technical stack, as well as the ongoing task of administering/maintaining these services, is still too complex for the majority of people.

It needs to get simpler and more robust if we're ever going to meaningfully break free from the surveillance capitalist space.

@freedomboxfndn @yunohost this isn't a criticism of your projects by the way. I think what you're doing is important.

cc @uniq @alvarezp

@gid @uniq @alvarezp @freedomboxfndn @yunohost I agree. I wish that selfhosting would be easier. I will try to set up my own yunohost in November. I don't have IT background, but I love to learn new stuff. I hope I'll manage to get it to work.

@lapor @gid @uniq @alvarezp @freedomboxfndn @yunohost Just got my RPi + Storage + Case and will be setting up YUNoHost soon. I think a similar box could be sold to the average person. Then it will be a matter of providing easy to use UIs plus stable code projects, but that is on is, potential contributors, not the users. Letโ€™s build it together ;)

@tasugo @gid @uniq @alvarezp @freedomboxfndn @yunohost Nice. I am waiting for my Olinuxino Lime 2 with SSD. One can buy a premade package for home server on Olimex.

@gid @uniq @alvarezp @freedomboxfndn @yunohost Not sure if that's ever going to happen, not completely. The matter is complex, you can only simplify things so much. I'd say aim for making it feasible for the somewhat-techies, and let people help eachother. Not everyone needs (or should have) their own personal Nextcloud, you can share one within your family, for example.

@doenietzomoeilijk @uniq @alvarezp @freedomboxfndn @yunohost sure, you're right there. And the efforts to simplify availability/access to self-hosting these services doesn't just stop at software development. Robust/permanent Internet access is also a barrier. But imagine if there were widely available cooperatives that provided communities with bandwidth/address space/discovery services so they could self-host. That would greatly reduce the cost (money, time, training) of setting up and running these services.

@gid @doenietzomoeilijk @uniq @freedomboxfndn @yunohost I don't know... On one hand, only those who can read code can be certain they are free from surveillance. Otherwise they are forced to trust someone else, be it a relative or an ethical company.

On the other, it is impossible for everybody in the world to be able to know everything, including coding. Most have made the choice to not learn to code. I think that's OK.

@alvarezp @gid @uniq @freedomboxfndn @yunohost

That latter part is exactly what I mean. It's also not limited to code - at some point you're going to have to trust Someone Else to do something for you, and not cock it up (healthcare, transit come to mind), and that's indeed OK. Nobody can know and do everything.

What we *do* need, perhaps, is more incentive for honest, non-cocking-up folks to start doing things for others, instead of leaving it to the current powers that be.

@gid @uniq @alvarezp @freedomboxfndn @yunohost
Could we think to a version "basic" of @yunohost with only some services that do not require difficult configurations like DNS and external services (at least only dynamic DNS)? For example I think all the web based services - @nextcloud, @calibreweb, @ttrss - does not require anything more than a domain name.
Leaving back email and jabber, but we could leave an option to "upgrade" the basic version to a full one with a warning to the user (...)

@gid @uniq @alvarezp @freedomboxfndn @yunohost @yunohost @nextcloud, @calibreweb, @ttrss that the upgrade will need some technical steps

@uniq @gid @alvarezp see also Sandstorm, which never quite took off (not without reason, but still at least an honest and explicit attempt to make that sort of thing happen)

sandstorm.io/news/2014-07-21-o

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